[characterzero]

Yeah, the democrats have really started going at each other. The media really hasn't helped at all, they've been slinging as much mud as they can. I think if either party is divided they'll fail, like earlier people were worrying McCain was actually TOO liberal. Now the shoe is on the other foot so to speak. However, following the Bush administration, I think the democrats have a pretty good chance.

This is provided Nader doesn't pick up any steam.

[monetmelly]

Obama, hes changing the game

[Brian Krashpad]

Obama. We need to stop this World Policeman shit. If we weren't bleeding millions a day in Iraq we'd all be a lot better off.

McCain is ready to stay in Iraq for generations. Fuck that.

[Brian Krashpad]

Originally Posted by floydmoline

or you could vote for a democrat, and watch taxes sky-rocket

Yeah, God forbid someone actually PAYS for all this shit. While we're at it, let's give out some money to everyone while we're running a billions-dollar deficit. Great way to buy votes.

Heard the expression there's no free lunch?

Sorry, but the Republicans gave up their position as fiscally responsible about 8 fucking years ago.

[MrSandMan]

Bush administration endorses McCain. So fuck that!

My vote goes to Obama. Plus the guy seems very level headed and someone who isn't looking to screw us every chance he gets... but then again, he is a politician.

[floydmoline]

Originally Posted by MrSandMan

Bush administration endorses McCain. So fuck that!

My vote goes to Obama. Plus the guy seems very level headed and someone who isn't looking to screw us every chance he gets... but then again, he is a politician.

that would be obvious that the bush admin is supporting mccain LOL, the incumbant republican is ALWAYS going to support the sole republican canidate.

Obama. We need to stop this World Policeman shit.

we are going to be the worlds watchdog regardless of who is in the house, it is our "responsibility" iraq is a farce, mainly because we invaded NOT because we were called upon by the UN to iraq, uni-lateral military invasion is an invasion no mater how you coat it in the press, and for that bush should be imprisoned for TREASON!!

McCain is ready to stay in Iraq for generations. Fuck that.

once again it goes back to it's our responsibility, we went in and destroyed a stable government, replaced it with another in-efficient goveernment that can't make up their minds on what they need or want to do.

Sorry, but the Republicans gave up their position as fiscally responsible about 8 fucking years ago.

i say there is more to life than money...... as far as spending goes that is the fault of congress not the president, the president can't spend anymore money than his yearly salary without consent of congress anyone who's taken a semester of civics knows this..... the primary reason i stand behind the republicans is morality, and values. i honestly don't much care how or why they spend money it really does not directly effect me, the taxes may effect me and as long as they don't raise income taxes i could careless how they spend it. BUT gun control, religion force fed in a public forum, right to life, and personal freedom / morality laws all effect me in a real and personal way. and republicans values are aligned more toward my values, i feel safe knowing there is a guy in a position of power who's interests are in line more with mine.

[Brian Krashpad]

Originally Posted by floydmoline

we are going to be the worlds watchdog regardless of who is in the house, it is our "responsibility" iraq is a farce, mainly because we invaded NOT because we were called upon by the UN to iraq, uni-lateral military invasion is an invasion no mater how you coat it in the press, and for that bush should be imprisoned for TREASON!!

That's exactly the kind of thing I meant by "world policeman." We can do things dumb, like illegal unilateral invasions, or smart. Iraq was dumb. We're in agreement.

McCain wants to stay there. Saddam's dead and the WMD's were a lie from the get-go. Time to cut them loose.

McCain is ready to stay in Iraq for generations. Fuck that.

Originally Posted by floydmoline

once again it goes back to it's our responsibility, we went in and destroyed a stable government, replaced it with another in-efficient goveernment that can't make up their minds on what they need or want to do.

So because Bush fucked up we're supposed to doom future generations to the albatross of Iraq around our national neck?

I say no way, Ray. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Sorry, but the Republicans gave up their position as fiscally responsible about 8 fucking years ago.

Originally Posted by floydmoline

i say there is more to life than money......

But, if that's you're thought than you shouldn't be concerned about taxes.

Originally Posted by floydmoline

as far as spending goes that is the fault of congress not the president, the president can't spend anymore money than his yearly salary without consent of congress anyone who's taken a semester of civics knows this..... the primary reason i stand behind the republicans is morality, and values. i honestly don't much care how or why they spend money it really does not directly effect me, the taxes may effect me and as long as they don't raise income taxes i could careless how they spend it. BUT gun control, religion force fed in a public forum, right to life, and personal freedom / morality laws all effect me in a real and personal way. and republicans values are aligned more toward my values, i feel safe knowing there is a guy in a position of power who's interests are in line more with mine.

What "religion force fed in a public forum" are you talking about? You mean like when fundamentalists take over school boards and mandate the teaching of creationism? I agree. You should be voting Democrat on that issue.

I want to hear more about these "personal freedom / morality laws" you mention as well. Which of those are you in favor of? They're opposing interests. If you are for personal freedom, then you'd be against "morality laws." And should be voting Democrat.

As for gun control, if people need a license to drive a car, it's ludicrous to assert that they can't be regulated when they want to purchase and use guns. We both know that the language of the Second Amendment is far from clear that no regulation was intended. In fact, a good argument can be made that it applies only to the forming of militias. But at any rate it's well-settled that reasonable regulations of gun ownership do not violate the Second Amendment. An outright ban might.

I won't even get into abortion rights, other than to say that until a baby is born it's part of a woman's body, and no one else should have any say in what she does with it. Those with the belief that "life begins at conception" invariably base such beliefs on their religious beliefs, and those beliefs are not shared by everyone else. Legislating morality seldom works, and when doing so is based on the religious tenets of certain faiths, whether they be fundamentalist Muslims or fundamentalist Christians, then our right to free religion, which encompasses the right to be from religion, is abridged.

[floydmoline]

well i am not a religious person, i do not believe in god, but i'm not a militant atheiest, that point goes on to my personal freedom idea, it is your or anyone else right to choose what religion you personally choose to follow, as long as you respect my right to choose my own religion

gun control..... is wrong period i and everyone else KNOW why it was added to the bill of rights, same reason a president can only server 2 terms, governments have a horrible tendancy to TAKE more control than was originally mandated by the people, and people need guns to defend themselves from a tyranical government, it can be argueed all day long about how in this day and age tyrants couldn't come to power and we could control what happens in our government etc etc etc, but i ask this if the people had their voices heard would we be in iraq right now, and would we have been there to begin with, we would more than likely be there now, but wouldn't have gone over to begin with, too many of us have or have had loved ones in iraq and know what really goes on, and not what the TV tells us. i know i am going to get flamed for this, but i supported david koresh, he was a religious zealot and a nut job, BUT it was iraq on a small scale, the ATF had NO reason to storm his compound, given the FBI, or local police had plenty of reason to, the ATF stepped WAY WAY WAY out of their mandated jurisiction, and as such he defended himself, he had the guns they were bitching about LONG before clinton took office and created his "ban" on assult weapons. if you let the democrats have their way we would not be allowed to own any hand guns, or semi-sutomatic rifles, or any other weapon deemed military / assault we would be allowed to own one shotgun for hunting purposes. hey it works in canada so it'll work here WRONG canada also has universal health care..... i think that sould be MORE of an issue than gun control..... in case it is no appearant gun control is the ONE issue i will debate forever and all day long, it is my last and only defence against anyone who wants to screw with my life, i only have once to live and NO ONE is going to fuck with that..... if someone steps to me and pulls a gun or a knife i enjoy the comfort that i am not going to die and it will be a fair fight. if the government can't control violent criminals i will. there is more i would love to ramble on about lol but i don't have time atm.... i will be back lol

[MrSandMan]

Originally Posted by Brian Krashpad

I say no way, Ray. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rovQj9vNq8I

[Brian Krashpad]

Originally Posted by floydmoline

well i am not a religious person, i do not believe in god, but i'm not a militant atheiest, that point goes on to my personal freedom idea, it is your or anyone else right to choose what religion you personally choose to follow, as long as you respect my right to choose my own religion

gun control..... is wrong period i and everyone else KNOW why it was added to the bill of rights, same reason a president can only server 2 terms, governments have a horrible tendancy to TAKE more control than was originally mandated by the people, and people need guns to defend themselves from a tyranical government, it can be argueed all day long about how in this day and age tyrants couldn't come to power and we could control what happens in our government etc etc etc, but i ask this if the people had their voices heard would we be in iraq right now, and would we have been there to begin with, we would more than likely be there now, but wouldn't have gone over to begin with, too many of us have or have had loved ones in iraq and know what really goes on, and not what the TV tells us. i know i am going to get flamed for this, but i supported david koresh, he was a religious zealot and a nut job, BUT it was iraq on a small scale, the ATF had NO reason to storm his compound, given the FBI, or local police had plenty of reason to, the ATF stepped WAY WAY WAY out of their mandated jurisiction, and as such he defended himself, he had the guns they were bitching about LONG before clinton took office and created his "ban" on assult weapons. if you let the democrats have their way we would not be allowed to own any hand guns, or semi-sutomatic rifles, or any other weapon deemed military / assault we would be allowed to own one shotgun for hunting purposes. hey it works in canada so it'll work here WRONG canada also has universal health care..... i think that sould be MORE of an issue than gun control..... in case it is no appearant gun control is the ONE issue i will debate forever and all day long, it is my last and only defence against anyone who wants to screw with my life, i only have once to live and NO ONE is going to fuck with that..... if someone steps to me and pulls a gun or a knife i enjoy the comfort that i am not going to die and it will be a fair fight. if the government can't control violent criminals i will. there is more i would love to ramble on about lol but i don't have time atm.... i will be back lol

Note to self: call BEFORE showing up at Floyd's house.

And wear plenty of Kevlar.