[MrSandMan]

The first thought when I hear the word "Vintage", I think of The Beatles equipment and Tweed amps.

My guess is that anything pre-196X's is the ideal vintage; Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic

[floydmoline]

I'm guessing you're comparing the Epi LP Standard to the Rondo AL-2000 (which is at the $200 price point).

At the outset, it's obvious that Rondo can offer a bit more bang-for-buck, because Epi has an advertising budget while Rondo essentially doesn't. However, once you get past the "paying-for-the-name" thing, things get very subjective and very dicey very fast.

For example, I doubt I could hear a difference between what a solid 1/16" grade B maple cap does to an Agile AL-2000 vs. what a laminate maple cap does to an Epi. Maybe you can, but I doubt my ears are that good.

But, in addition to getting the Les Paul/Epi name, there are other factors that may make an Epi more attractive to some buyers (especially now that it appears that Epi is using only mahogany for bodies and not substituting alder sometimes, as used to be the case). For instance, Epi's LP Standard comes with alnico pickups and a mahogany neck, closer to original LP specs. The Rondo AL-2000 comes with a maple neck and ceramic humbuckers.

For me, all these differences are relatively minimal, though the pickup difference (which Epi wins) probably has the most effect on sound. You're free to assign whatever value to them as you chooose, but the "$200 Agile" has some other features that would be more detrimental to some people than the laminate cap on the Epi is.

Just sayin'.

i agree with 90% of that, but i guess my point has been taken out of context, plywood / laminate / whatever, sonic properties withstanding is not and can never be considered quality, at least by me.....

my point that seems to have gotten lost in the debate:
"vintage" guitars, effects, and amps are superior to modern equipment because time, and care were taken to create them, they are made of quality parts, most of which were hand made / fabricated in house....... Gibson never out sourced their pickups in the 50's and 60's, they made them in shop, by hand. woods were selected by a real luthier not grabbed off a pile of scrap wood by a forklift, and thrown on a conveyor line to the CNC machines.

as far as my big thing about laminate is that it's not real wood, even though it sometimes gets advertised as such, has nothing to do with the way it sounds it's the idea of it, when you purchase a pair of work shoes you prefer to buy real leather because it stands up better, you wouldn't knowingly buy laminated synthetic leather even if the engineers tell you it's superior....... electrical engineers have been telling instrument manufactures for years that class A/B amps are inefficient and introduce distortion (and so? that's what give a guitar tube amp part of it's character), been telling us silicon has superior electrical qualities to germanium (yet a 60's fuzz face sounds Superior made with inferior components).......

just an opinion, not condemning anyones, just voicing mine....... BTW i love a sensible, adult debate, if i offend anyone, let me know i will apologize, I'm not here to start a flame war..... i just have strong opinions sometimes :-D (disclaimer to cover my ass, i get misunderstood all the time, i am not an asshole..... much LOL)

[Brian Krashpad]

No apologies necessary at all! We're just having a good discussion.

[Vintageheadbox]

Really anything more than 30 yrs old can be considered Vintage and over 20 classic

[MrSandMan]

Well, that means I'm vintage then

[ChristopherSunderland]

I would say that anything over 20 was Vintage. Anything over 5 Years is old really, because you are always going to get new stuff.

[JulieT]

1960's and earlier is vintage. 1970's - 1980's are classics. The only way this changes is if something in the 1970's or 1980's cannot be duplicated or even made similar.

[Brian Krashpad]

Since we have some new members, I'm bumping this for other opinions.

[emeraldwilly]

the tone is in your grandpa's stains

[emeraldwilly]

14 posts lol